I don't think that reality is binary, either good or bad, but rather all shades of all colors so that there can't really be a perfect answer to this dilemma any more than most. Alcohol is a legal commodity. Your farm is helping your community and sad as it is, addicts will always find ways to support their addictions regardless of what you do. That isn't to say that your work to highlight their plight has no effect; I'm sure it does. I understand your dilemma very well as I deal with a very similar one. The mantras of AA help in this regard. To the person concerned about the addiction of others: You did not cause it. You cannot cure it. You cannot control it. This idea extends to the product of your farm. Addiction will not be solved by making access to the substances more difficult. If it did, the war on drugs would have worked. Prohibition would have worked. Enjoy your farm. Support your community. Help those you can but not in a way that keeps them from helping and saving themselves and continue to highlight those in despair and possible societal solutions.
Perfectly said. I could only add a few words to this thoughtful comment. Addiction sucks and it really does kill loads of people and negatively affects many more than it kills. Alcohol itself doesn't cause addiction. Easy access probably exacerbates the problem and we know prohibition does not work. I agree that you should keep on farming grapes and apples and stay aware of possibilities (such as non-alcoholic sparkling cider)
I grew up in a rural former logging town in Oregon, so Tightrope obviously hit home in many ways. One of the things that became apparent in your book is that many social ills we attempt to problem solve in isolation, whether it's addiction/substance abuse, untreated mental illness, suicide rates, etc. are symptoms of bigger issues, namely varying degrees of trauma resulting from difficult home lives, abuse, poverty and more. Knowing that you and Sheryl are aware of and actively working on ways to address these foundational problems, the rural economic benefits of cider and wine grape production seem to be well within the bounds of your values and your desired impact on the world.
Yes, thank you for articulating an argument that I've felt but didn't really make well. In my community, alcoholism took a real toll, but that was partly because a lack of good jobs fueled despair. If the wine and cider industry can nurture better jobs, may that reduce the despair and the drive to addiction? I think so. Broadly speaking, I think economic development, investments in children and in education, more mental health services and greater efforts to fight homelessness are the better paths to fight alcoholism and addiction.
The heart break you write about in your local community is a result of when folks get 'stuck': be it physically, mentally, financially, or spiritually. Everyone needs to feels connected and with some kind of purpose in life. Having a meaningful job, stable housing, and some kind of community give us a reason to get up in the morning - get dressed - and get 'into' life.
Can't think of anything more depressing than having 'nothing to do' each day......
If the wine and cider industry can nurture better jobs, may that reduce the despair and the drive to addiction? I think so. No Nicholas, it will not. If you believe that, you just don't get it. Yet.
I think the intention we put into our actions matters. People have healthy and unhealthy relationships with alcohol, as they do with food and other things. But if your intention is to produce fine wine and cider for the enjoyment of those who drink them, to add local jobs, and to generate an ethical source of revenue, I think that what you're doing sounds great. A way of marrying your passion for benefiting the world with this venture might be to take a page from Newman's Own, which donates proceeds to charitable organizations. Or the revenue might be used to purchase and run a non-profit organization.
All the best to you in your endeavors. I wish you were back at The Times!
Here is a link to research which indicates the power of intention, even on the food we eat and beverages we drink:
Here is a link on just one of the serious dangers of alcohol: 'There is no safe amount of alcohol consumption for the brain; even moderate drinking adversely affects brain structure and function [per] a British study of more 25,000 adults ..." Anya Topiwala, DPhil, University of Oxford, Oxford, UK, told Medscape...' https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/951694
The 'power of intention' can clearly serve as powerful rationalization for doing what we know is harmful.
I had seen that. Even if ethanol (alcohol) in any amount is in fact harmful to the body/brain, (being a solvent) the role of alcohol for many people is pleasurable. I think an absolutist take on it is unrealistic. It frames the issue like smoking cigarettes, which is in fact cut and dry. Plenty of people live healthy, long lives and enjoy alcohol. Intention does matter in everything we do. The term "rationalization" is used when someone is doing something wrong but contriving justifications for it. I don't think he is doing anything wrong in producing wine and hard cider, but I am dubious that the main reason for his article was to solicit opinions. It seemed more like a plug for his products to me.
I agree completely. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on practical solutions for improving rural schools in all areas: academic, career preparation, and mental health services. The logistics are daunting given the diffuse nature of rural communities, but coordination with community colleges and utilization of technology seem crucial. While virtual learning didn’t meet the needs of all students, there is potential to augment educational opportunities and address isolation, particularly among certain groups of rural kids.
Or in judgement. Perhaps simply posing the question: why are you asking now, or have you always felt this would have been a more open way to ask Nicholas how he has come to reach his moral dilemma.
Perhaps I was blinded by the light, or perhaps you have much better sight than I, or maybe I am just a simple soul who prefers to have things very clearly stated.
Your comments are well thought and heart felt. Complex questions don't have simple solutions.
First, I think you should grow the grapes, produce the wine(s), and make the cider. Wine is a nectar to be enjoyed. Some will have a problem with alcohol. It is not your problem to solve, and nobody can. Help is available to those who want it. Of three friends who have the problem, only one is effectively dealing with it.
Let me come at this from a different direction. I'm a retired, professional biologist and a now-deaf musician. As an amateur, I've made wines that were terrible, so I switched to making ales that ranged from terrible to very good. I gifted that ale-making equipment and my notes to my son in law. So far, no ale has been gifted back. It is not that he would not provide a bottle on occasion, he has a young family, a job, yadda, yadda.
I likely lost my hearing via a combination of nature and behaviors. Using a cochlear implant, I get by. Listening to loud music and playing the blues in a band for 17 years is likely the major cause of my hearing loss. Do I think other musicians should stop playing music? Absolutely not. It is now my role to adjust to the world, not the other way around. My friend who is dealing with her alcohol problem feels the same. Our gourmet group stopped using wine at just one gathering before my friend came down on us to keep enjoying wines with our meals. It was up to her to deal with her problem and not up to us to accommodate her problem. She was emphatic about that. I do caution friends and relatives about loud music, and when I played in the blues band, I would caution folks about sitting to close to the speakers.
I have a bum knee. It is likely from multiple sporting activities and lots of running. Should sports be eliminated to prevent bum knees and other injuries. No, I don't think so. And I'm not a sports fan. I don't watch sports, just played some and ran a lot.
I take responsibility for my hearing loss and my bum knee. Would I go back and change what contributed to each? Only in part. I'd be more cautious listening to and making music, but I'd still partake of the art. Ditto sports, but bad stuff happens in sports, and while some injury prevention is available, nothing is 100%.
So, enjoy your new adventure. I see it as a positive contribution.
I think that people have to eat (which dispels the rich sauces argument) but they don’t have to drink. If your farm can produce grapes, they didn’t need to be turned into an alcohol product. If you hadn’t spent years writing about addiction issues and trying to run a campaign on deaths of despair, I’d say, hey - you do you. But you established a higher ethical ground with your own work.
Your narrative is disturbing as you add fuel to dangerous propaganda. No, you don’t need alcohol for social connection. Similar to rich French food? Seriously? How many times have car accidents or domestic violence occurred as a direct result of coq au vin? Surely there are other forms of agriculture you could engage in - you’d probably make a fine NA apple cider. This is the most disappointing thing you’ve ever written. If you want to produce hard cider, do it. Just don’t hide behind a harmful narrative.
Speaking of propaganda (or cringe inducing alcohol marketing): “Cider or wine can chip away at that loneliness by nurturing friendships and building social capital and connections. It can bring people together. It can help people relax and reduce stress. It can nurture friendships, help people enjoy life, and weave social fabric.” And “We’re proud of this cider, and we think it adds sparkle to life.” I’ve been a huge fan of NK for years. I’ve lost a lot of respect for him on the topic of addiction with this piece, half of which was nothing more than an advertisement for his drug business. Yes, alcohol is a drug.
Exactly. My response may have been harsh, but I was shocked that NK (the journalist I most respected) would write such garbage. The fact is alcohol is a poison. A toxin that can get you intoxicated. Most of us are willing to consume things on occasion that aren’t healthy (sugar, alcohol). None of these substances are required to “bring people together”. It’s that ‘big lie’ that contributes to addiction.
This!! We have to get rid of the narrative that drinking and social connections go hand in hand. They don't have to. And they can't for those who truly have the disease of alcoholism.
I totally agree, while your point re domestic violence is one I thought of only after I'd posted my own comment. Nick has for decades advocated for abused women, a fact that adds to the hypocrisy factor, if you consider the trigger alcohol has always been for angry &/or disturbed men--not to mention the current, horrific spread of rage & violence in our nation. Surely anything we do that contributes to these can make us complicit. On the other hand, taking a public stance by converting from hard to soft cider, would at least support those trying to educate us re the dangers of alcohol. As someone else said, the disingenuousness of his argument is obvious--so obvious that I wonder if he's conducting a kind of social experiment with this thread...
Personally, since you asked, I do think there is a conflict and that you would be more true to your values if you sold grapes or cherries as food or made non-alcoholic sparking beverages. Or grew something else, perhaps?
I sort of get the sense that you are asking the question hoping that you will be supported so you can feel good about what you do. (NOT accusing you of hypocrisy, but suggesting that you hope to feel OK about the conflict.) Because nearly everyone who does drink alcohol will say what you are doing is just fine. It is a bit like the "guns don't kill, people do" argument -- NOT that intense or hypocritical, but still flavored that way to me. I have seen far, far too many people on the paternal side of my family suffer from severe alcoholism. I drank once and decided I didn't like to have my mind altered by a substance. And what about the genetic susceptibility of certain populations, which is well documented?
But if you are asking because you really do feel conflicted about it, then I would say to listen to that intuition and look for other options.
I believe that since you have to ask the question, you already know the answer. While you are clearly not your brother/sisters keeper, you have staked out a strong position on the ravages of alcoholism and addiction. While it is perfectly legitimate to produce wine and hard cider, and addicts will find their poison, it would appear that you are rationalizing a decision you and your family have made. As pointed out by others, there are other products that would be less harmful but perhaps less profitable for you to grow. In the final analysis, it yourself you need to convince.
I was waiting to be seated in a restaurant and heard a man talking to his alcoholic friends on the phone. My son was an alcoholic so I knew something about it. The man asked me if I was an alcoholic and I said I didn't know. He asked if I could have one glass of wine and then be done with it for the night. I said I could. He said I am not an alcoholic. An alcoholic, he said, would parley that one glass of wine into a bottle and then switch to vodka and go on a bender and wake up in an unknown bed or another state. He said that to me wine was just a beverage but to an alcoholic it is a trigger to extreme consumption and oblivion. The problem is not with the beverage, it is with the gene or whatever it is that triggers the alcoholic. I don't see an ethical problem.
Being a recovering alcoholic my question is, why do you need to do this? Why not produce non-alcoholic products? Certainly you can find other ways to utilize the abundance of your crops.
Tough question. Everyone in my nuclear family of origin were alcoholics. I am very mindful of my risk. But I drink alcohol. I am conflicted about it. I believe I would enjoy better health if I didn’t drink at all, (and enjoy zero risk of over-indulging) but I also enjoy a lot of conviviality over a glass of wine. I wonder all the time if I should never drink.
On the other hand, the wine and cider industry provides good jobs! Good for your family for providing some. I always wonder why people of means don’t make job creation a priority use of personal wealth. I guess, given that most truth is found in paradox, I think you are doing good, not harm. As you have always done with your gifts! Thank you.
We too have forebears who were alcoholics so we don’t drink, but I’d wager our fun family times are more convivial than most others. I’ve noticed over the years the heavy, heavy judgmental death ray blasts from drinkers when we don’t indulge.
Yes! Alcoholism runs through our family line so we choose not to drink. The questions and criticism we have to endure EVERY time we go to a company dinner or neighborhood social event and don't drink are ridiculous. Sometimes we just don't go so we don't have to explain yet one more time why we choose not to drink. 🙈
You are not your brother's keeper. I presume you don't market your alcoholic products to children, or feature some fallacious hooks to romanticize them. I do not see any ethical problem.
“ Cider or wine can chip away at that loneliness by nurturing friendships and building social capital and connections. It can bring people together. It can help people relax and reduce stress. It can nurture friendships, help people enjoy life, and weave social fabric.
Alexander Fleming, who discovered penicillin, declared: “penicillin cures, but wine makes people happy.” Hemingway described wine as “one of the most civilized things in the world.”
One might label this language as a fallacious hook.
You say that cider or wine can nurture friendships and build connections. It's hardly necessary to the process. Isn't it true that people will get together with or without it? I've always felt that people who find alcohol necessary to a social situation have an alcohol problem. If anything, it detracts from social situations by taking the place of an actual connection to the people you're with. Having drinks with someone doesn't mean you're friends; having a conversation might.
You can probably think of something better to do with your land that will still employ people and help the economy.
I don't think that reality is binary, either good or bad, but rather all shades of all colors so that there can't really be a perfect answer to this dilemma any more than most. Alcohol is a legal commodity. Your farm is helping your community and sad as it is, addicts will always find ways to support their addictions regardless of what you do. That isn't to say that your work to highlight their plight has no effect; I'm sure it does. I understand your dilemma very well as I deal with a very similar one. The mantras of AA help in this regard. To the person concerned about the addiction of others: You did not cause it. You cannot cure it. You cannot control it. This idea extends to the product of your farm. Addiction will not be solved by making access to the substances more difficult. If it did, the war on drugs would have worked. Prohibition would have worked. Enjoy your farm. Support your community. Help those you can but not in a way that keeps them from helping and saving themselves and continue to highlight those in despair and possible societal solutions.
Perfectly said. I could only add a few words to this thoughtful comment. Addiction sucks and it really does kill loads of people and negatively affects many more than it kills. Alcohol itself doesn't cause addiction. Easy access probably exacerbates the problem and we know prohibition does not work. I agree that you should keep on farming grapes and apples and stay aware of possibilities (such as non-alcoholic sparkling cider)
LOVE this response!
I'm not seeing a conflict as long as you promote responsible consumption and support organizations that help with addiction.
Do you also make a non-alcoholic version of sparkling cider?? That seems appropriate as well.
As someone who gave up drinking just to feel healthier, I'd love a N/A cider version!
This was my thought as well. In our church the rule is that if alcohol is served, we must have "equally attractive" non-alcoholic options.
I grew up in a rural former logging town in Oregon, so Tightrope obviously hit home in many ways. One of the things that became apparent in your book is that many social ills we attempt to problem solve in isolation, whether it's addiction/substance abuse, untreated mental illness, suicide rates, etc. are symptoms of bigger issues, namely varying degrees of trauma resulting from difficult home lives, abuse, poverty and more. Knowing that you and Sheryl are aware of and actively working on ways to address these foundational problems, the rural economic benefits of cider and wine grape production seem to be well within the bounds of your values and your desired impact on the world.
Yes, thank you for articulating an argument that I've felt but didn't really make well. In my community, alcoholism took a real toll, but that was partly because a lack of good jobs fueled despair. If the wine and cider industry can nurture better jobs, may that reduce the despair and the drive to addiction? I think so. Broadly speaking, I think economic development, investments in children and in education, more mental health services and greater efforts to fight homelessness are the better paths to fight alcoholism and addiction.
The heart break you write about in your local community is a result of when folks get 'stuck': be it physically, mentally, financially, or spiritually. Everyone needs to feels connected and with some kind of purpose in life. Having a meaningful job, stable housing, and some kind of community give us a reason to get up in the morning - get dressed - and get 'into' life.
Can't think of anything more depressing than having 'nothing to do' each day......
If the wine and cider industry can nurture better jobs, may that reduce the despair and the drive to addiction? I think so. No Nicholas, it will not. If you believe that, you just don't get it. Yet.
I think the intention we put into our actions matters. People have healthy and unhealthy relationships with alcohol, as they do with food and other things. But if your intention is to produce fine wine and cider for the enjoyment of those who drink them, to add local jobs, and to generate an ethical source of revenue, I think that what you're doing sounds great. A way of marrying your passion for benefiting the world with this venture might be to take a page from Newman's Own, which donates proceeds to charitable organizations. Or the revenue might be used to purchase and run a non-profit organization.
All the best to you in your endeavors. I wish you were back at The Times!
Here is a link to research which indicates the power of intention, even on the food we eat and beverages we drink:
https://noetic.org/blog/cooks-intention-affect-quality-food/
Here is a link on just one of the serious dangers of alcohol: 'There is no safe amount of alcohol consumption for the brain; even moderate drinking adversely affects brain structure and function [per] a British study of more 25,000 adults ..." Anya Topiwala, DPhil, University of Oxford, Oxford, UK, told Medscape...' https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/951694
The 'power of intention' can clearly serve as powerful rationalization for doing what we know is harmful.
I had seen that. Even if ethanol (alcohol) in any amount is in fact harmful to the body/brain, (being a solvent) the role of alcohol for many people is pleasurable. I think an absolutist take on it is unrealistic. It frames the issue like smoking cigarettes, which is in fact cut and dry. Plenty of people live healthy, long lives and enjoy alcohol. Intention does matter in everything we do. The term "rationalization" is used when someone is doing something wrong but contriving justifications for it. I don't think he is doing anything wrong in producing wine and hard cider, but I am dubious that the main reason for his article was to solicit opinions. It seemed more like a plug for his products to me.
I agree completely. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on practical solutions for improving rural schools in all areas: academic, career preparation, and mental health services. The logistics are daunting given the diffuse nature of rural communities, but coordination with community colleges and utilization of technology seem crucial. While virtual learning didn’t meet the needs of all students, there is potential to augment educational opportunities and address isolation, particularly among certain groups of rural kids.
i am among your many admirers, but find this question disingenuous.
Agreed. Especially after the decision has already been made.
precisely
Could you explain why you consider the question disingenuous?
I also found it disingenuous because it just feels like an advertisement for a new business posed as an ethics question.
yes. the site wouldn't let me follow the sequence to give a short bio and response, without doing the subscriptions thing. How disappointing.
Thank you.
mirriam webster explains it perfectly
I did no ask for the definition of disingenuous, but for your rationale.
i thought it was blindingly obvious
Maybe obvious if one tends to live life in suspicion, guardedness.
Or in judgement. Perhaps simply posing the question: why are you asking now, or have you always felt this would have been a more open way to ask Nicholas how he has come to reach his moral dilemma.
Perhaps I was blinded by the light, or perhaps you have much better sight than I, or maybe I am just a simple soul who prefers to have things very clearly stated.
Your comments are well thought and heart felt. Complex questions don't have simple solutions.
First, I think you should grow the grapes, produce the wine(s), and make the cider. Wine is a nectar to be enjoyed. Some will have a problem with alcohol. It is not your problem to solve, and nobody can. Help is available to those who want it. Of three friends who have the problem, only one is effectively dealing with it.
Let me come at this from a different direction. I'm a retired, professional biologist and a now-deaf musician. As an amateur, I've made wines that were terrible, so I switched to making ales that ranged from terrible to very good. I gifted that ale-making equipment and my notes to my son in law. So far, no ale has been gifted back. It is not that he would not provide a bottle on occasion, he has a young family, a job, yadda, yadda.
I likely lost my hearing via a combination of nature and behaviors. Using a cochlear implant, I get by. Listening to loud music and playing the blues in a band for 17 years is likely the major cause of my hearing loss. Do I think other musicians should stop playing music? Absolutely not. It is now my role to adjust to the world, not the other way around. My friend who is dealing with her alcohol problem feels the same. Our gourmet group stopped using wine at just one gathering before my friend came down on us to keep enjoying wines with our meals. It was up to her to deal with her problem and not up to us to accommodate her problem. She was emphatic about that. I do caution friends and relatives about loud music, and when I played in the blues band, I would caution folks about sitting to close to the speakers.
I have a bum knee. It is likely from multiple sporting activities and lots of running. Should sports be eliminated to prevent bum knees and other injuries. No, I don't think so. And I'm not a sports fan. I don't watch sports, just played some and ran a lot.
I take responsibility for my hearing loss and my bum knee. Would I go back and change what contributed to each? Only in part. I'd be more cautious listening to and making music, but I'd still partake of the art. Ditto sports, but bad stuff happens in sports, and while some injury prevention is available, nothing is 100%.
So, enjoy your new adventure. I see it as a positive contribution.
I think that people have to eat (which dispels the rich sauces argument) but they don’t have to drink. If your farm can produce grapes, they didn’t need to be turned into an alcohol product. If you hadn’t spent years writing about addiction issues and trying to run a campaign on deaths of despair, I’d say, hey - you do you. But you established a higher ethical ground with your own work.
Your narrative is disturbing as you add fuel to dangerous propaganda. No, you don’t need alcohol for social connection. Similar to rich French food? Seriously? How many times have car accidents or domestic violence occurred as a direct result of coq au vin? Surely there are other forms of agriculture you could engage in - you’d probably make a fine NA apple cider. This is the most disappointing thing you’ve ever written. If you want to produce hard cider, do it. Just don’t hide behind a harmful narrative.
Speaking of propaganda (or cringe inducing alcohol marketing): “Cider or wine can chip away at that loneliness by nurturing friendships and building social capital and connections. It can bring people together. It can help people relax and reduce stress. It can nurture friendships, help people enjoy life, and weave social fabric.” And “We’re proud of this cider, and we think it adds sparkle to life.” I’ve been a huge fan of NK for years. I’ve lost a lot of respect for him on the topic of addiction with this piece, half of which was nothing more than an advertisement for his drug business. Yes, alcohol is a drug.
Exactly. My response may have been harsh, but I was shocked that NK (the journalist I most respected) would write such garbage. The fact is alcohol is a poison. A toxin that can get you intoxicated. Most of us are willing to consume things on occasion that aren’t healthy (sugar, alcohol). None of these substances are required to “bring people together”. It’s that ‘big lie’ that contributes to addiction.
This!! We have to get rid of the narrative that drinking and social connections go hand in hand. They don't have to. And they can't for those who truly have the disease of alcoholism.
I totally agree, while your point re domestic violence is one I thought of only after I'd posted my own comment. Nick has for decades advocated for abused women, a fact that adds to the hypocrisy factor, if you consider the trigger alcohol has always been for angry &/or disturbed men--not to mention the current, horrific spread of rage & violence in our nation. Surely anything we do that contributes to these can make us complicit. On the other hand, taking a public stance by converting from hard to soft cider, would at least support those trying to educate us re the dangers of alcohol. As someone else said, the disingenuousness of his argument is obvious--so obvious that I wonder if he's conducting a kind of social experiment with this thread...
Personally, since you asked, I do think there is a conflict and that you would be more true to your values if you sold grapes or cherries as food or made non-alcoholic sparking beverages. Or grew something else, perhaps?
I sort of get the sense that you are asking the question hoping that you will be supported so you can feel good about what you do. (NOT accusing you of hypocrisy, but suggesting that you hope to feel OK about the conflict.) Because nearly everyone who does drink alcohol will say what you are doing is just fine. It is a bit like the "guns don't kill, people do" argument -- NOT that intense or hypocritical, but still flavored that way to me. I have seen far, far too many people on the paternal side of my family suffer from severe alcoholism. I drank once and decided I didn't like to have my mind altered by a substance. And what about the genetic susceptibility of certain populations, which is well documented?
But if you are asking because you really do feel conflicted about it, then I would say to listen to that intuition and look for other options.
Best wishes to you....
I believe that since you have to ask the question, you already know the answer. While you are clearly not your brother/sisters keeper, you have staked out a strong position on the ravages of alcoholism and addiction. While it is perfectly legitimate to produce wine and hard cider, and addicts will find their poison, it would appear that you are rationalizing a decision you and your family have made. As pointed out by others, there are other products that would be less harmful but perhaps less profitable for you to grow. In the final analysis, it yourself you need to convince.
I was waiting to be seated in a restaurant and heard a man talking to his alcoholic friends on the phone. My son was an alcoholic so I knew something about it. The man asked me if I was an alcoholic and I said I didn't know. He asked if I could have one glass of wine and then be done with it for the night. I said I could. He said I am not an alcoholic. An alcoholic, he said, would parley that one glass of wine into a bottle and then switch to vodka and go on a bender and wake up in an unknown bed or another state. He said that to me wine was just a beverage but to an alcoholic it is a trigger to extreme consumption and oblivion. The problem is not with the beverage, it is with the gene or whatever it is that triggers the alcoholic. I don't see an ethical problem.
Perfectly stated.
Being a recovering alcoholic my question is, why do you need to do this? Why not produce non-alcoholic products? Certainly you can find other ways to utilize the abundance of your crops.
I honestly believe intention matters. Your motivation to better your community is a good one. Stay with that!
Tough question. Everyone in my nuclear family of origin were alcoholics. I am very mindful of my risk. But I drink alcohol. I am conflicted about it. I believe I would enjoy better health if I didn’t drink at all, (and enjoy zero risk of over-indulging) but I also enjoy a lot of conviviality over a glass of wine. I wonder all the time if I should never drink.
On the other hand, the wine and cider industry provides good jobs! Good for your family for providing some. I always wonder why people of means don’t make job creation a priority use of personal wealth. I guess, given that most truth is found in paradox, I think you are doing good, not harm. As you have always done with your gifts! Thank you.
We too have forebears who were alcoholics so we don’t drink, but I’d wager our fun family times are more convivial than most others. I’ve noticed over the years the heavy, heavy judgmental death ray blasts from drinkers when we don’t indulge.
Yes! Alcoholism runs through our family line so we choose not to drink. The questions and criticism we have to endure EVERY time we go to a company dinner or neighborhood social event and don't drink are ridiculous. Sometimes we just don't go so we don't have to explain yet one more time why we choose not to drink. 🙈
L. Shrunk. You lie down with dogs , you get up with fleas. Find some less psychotic people to not indulge in front of. And stop whining.
R. Ferguson a recovering alcholic
First off, you misspelled my name. Second, your comment is incoherent. Third, I didn’t ask for your opinion, sweetie.
You are not your brother's keeper. I presume you don't market your alcoholic products to children, or feature some fallacious hooks to romanticize them. I do not see any ethical problem.
I disagree with this. We are to some extent our brother’s keeper. Would you put out rat poison for your grandchild to eat?
“ Cider or wine can chip away at that loneliness by nurturing friendships and building social capital and connections. It can bring people together. It can help people relax and reduce stress. It can nurture friendships, help people enjoy life, and weave social fabric.
Alexander Fleming, who discovered penicillin, declared: “penicillin cures, but wine makes people happy.” Hemingway described wine as “one of the most civilized things in the world.”
One might label this language as a fallacious hook.
You say that cider or wine can nurture friendships and build connections. It's hardly necessary to the process. Isn't it true that people will get together with or without it? I've always felt that people who find alcohol necessary to a social situation have an alcohol problem. If anything, it detracts from social situations by taking the place of an actual connection to the people you're with. Having drinks with someone doesn't mean you're friends; having a conversation might.
You can probably think of something better to do with your land that will still employ people and help the economy.